Sizes

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Vance
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:08 am

Sizes

Post by Vance »

Hello everyone, Just sitting here and thinking about fishing. Here is my question. Do you think the flies have gotten smaller then back before they sprayed DDT? They always said in the old books that the Hendrickson’s were a size 10 or 12. Same with the Lt.Cahill, etc. I have caught most of my trout on a size 14 compared to a size 12 or a size 10. I know that the caddis flies did better then the May flies after the DDT. Over the years (since 1955) I have seen more caddis then mayflies. I’m talking about the B’kill and the Willo. although I have fished the W.Branch and E.Branch but not as much as the B’kill. Like my Marchbrown and Dun variant I use a size 12 compared to a size 10 and they are both big flies. Again do you think the Mayflies are smaller then pre DDT. Just some thing to think about. Bill the mailman

squish67
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Location: Greenwich, New York

Re: Sizes

Post by squish67 »

Not sure about the DDT, but have long thought the Mayflies are getting smaller. In the early 70's we used to match the Hendrickson with a size 12, it is a 14 now. Henry McIntyre, one of my mentors, had fished the Battenkill back in the late teens (100 years ago), when brook trout were still king. He told me when we fished together back in the 70's that he thought the flies were smaller than when he was young. Good fuel for debate.

Rich

Theroe
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Location: New York City

Re: Sizes

Post by Theroe »

Bill

What a great topic – I have often thought the same thing, although not directly linked to DDT. Two friends whom I fish with (one is 88, the other 84) told me the same thing. Leonard’s Book of Flies has a pattern called the Ashy....It’s tied on a size 10 1X long 1X heavy hook, like a Mustad 7957B or BX. Dark blue mole body with a fine gold rib with blue Andalusian hackle for the tail and wing. Both of these gentlemen told me that fly was used to imitate an emerging blue quill that was prevalent on the Beaverkill and Lackawaxen rivers in the 1950s, but disappeared around 1960 or 61. and it was a size 10. But none of the entomologists that I have spoken with have ever heard of this insect. Another fly is the black quill, which was meant to imitate the leptophlebia Cupid’s, which also are no longer in these rivers. There are at least two or three other examples out there as well.....
Dana
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twistedtippet
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:25 pm
Location: Riverton, Ct.

Re: Sizes

Post by twistedtippet »

Perhaps the hooks are getting bigger. I know that Tiemco 100's are almost a full size longer than Mustad 94840's. For Hendrickson female duns if I use Mustad 94840 size 12 I need a Tiemco 100 in size 14 for the same size fly.
tt

Theroe
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Re: Sizes

Post by Theroe »

twistedtippet wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:10 pm
Perhaps the hooks are getting bigger. I know that Tiemco 100's are almost a full size longer than Mustad 94840's. For Hendrickson female duns if I use Mustad 94840 size 12 I need a Tiemco 100 in size 14 for the same size fly.
tt
:arrow: :idea: That’s a very good point, which I have also noticed. Thank you!
“Time to go fishing”

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Eperous
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Location: Catskills

Re: Sizes

Post by Eperous »

So Bill the Mailman... excuse me if I shake up this post a bit.... is it DDT or perhaps climate change the causes of this concern? :?

Here in the Catskills bald eagles have made a great comeback in recent years after DDT almost eliminated them... I often see eagles all along the Ashokan Reservoir, Esopus Creek, and Neversink River... and I always marvel, and enjoy each sight....

AR-151017f.JPG
AR-151017f.JPG (28.81 KiB) Viewed 736 times

That said, NOAA just reported January 2020 was the warmest January on earth ever on record? :o Our Catskill waters seem to have more erratic flows and warmer stream temperatures than before, it's a fact--- you don't have to believe it but USGS scientists have documented this...

So could these changes have effected nature, as bald eagles have bounced back once man finally stepped aside? :?:

Ed

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Barleywine
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Location: Wyckoff, NJ

Re: Sizes

Post by Barleywine »

Just a thought here with zero evidence to support it: It seems that our early season hatches (e.g. Hendricksons) have been happening on the early side for the last decade or more. Climate change could have a hand in the waters being warmer earlier in the Spring, leading to earlier hatches. If the hatches are in fact trending earlier than their historic dates, then wouldn't that mean a shorter growth period for the nymphs, leading to smaller duns?

Again, zero research here on my part. Just a thought to throw out.

–Chuck
"The secret to life is honesty and fair dealing. When you can fake that, you've got it made." ---Groucho Marx

redietz
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Location: Central MD

Re: Sizes

Post by redietz »

Barleywine wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:30 pm
Just a thought here with zero evidence to support it: It seems that our early season hatches (e.g. Hendricksons) have been happening on the early side for the last decade or more. Climate change could have a hand in the waters being warmer earlier in the Spring, leading to earlier hatches. If the hatches are in fact trending earlier than their historic dates, then wouldn't that mean a shorter growth period for the nymphs, leading to smaller duns?

Again, zero research here on my part. Just a thought to throw out.
I had considered the same thing, but if they're hatching earlier, they're also laying their eggs eariler, which means that the next year, they're still got a full year's growth.

I do know that the Hendricksons in some streams are larger than in others. Maybe food supply has something to do with it?
Bob

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Caneghost
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Re: Sizes

Post by Caneghost »

There is no standardization in shank lengths for fly hooks so I agree that can be part of the impression. TMC 100s are 1XL compared to some Partridge and Mustads for instance. I've fished the rivers in the Catskills for better than 25 years. I have copied Hendricksons on the West Branch with tan size 14 (Daiichi hooks predominantly) and brick red size 16's. Over on the Neversink I copied them with both 12's and 14's. Saw some dark brick red ones on the Beaverkill last year that were darn near a size 10!

I often wonder if maybe we are dealing with various subspecies as Caucci wrote about. Saw some on the Mainstem last spring that were size 16 and a dark, dirty sulfur yellow. The bug looked like a Hendrickson as far as body shape, wings and dark back. Never encountered that variation before.

See my post in The Dry Fly about the road sign safety yellow March Browns. Weird things in nature sometimes.

Changes in Water chemistry, land use, soil chemistry, aquatic vegetation, chemical spills... the rivers and all our environment are in a constant flux. I am sure all of those things effect wildlife in different ways over time, and bugs are wildlife.
...a glint of sunlight on polished cane...

http://brightwatercatskill.art.blog

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Barleywine
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Re: Sizes

Post by Barleywine »

redietz wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:38 am
I had considered the same thing, but if they're hatching earlier, they're also laying their eggs eariler, which means that the next year, they're still got a full year's growth.

That's an excellent point Bob!


–Chuck
"The secret to life is honesty and fair dealing. When you can fake that, you've got it made." ---Groucho Marx

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