Catskill hackle Gauges

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narcodog
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Catskill hackle Gauges

Post by narcodog »

There is a question on FAOL concerning when was the first published information on the proportions of Catskill flies.
Question for the day..

If you know when, where and who published it.

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Eperous
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Re: Catskill hackle Gauges

Post by Eperous »

narcodog wrote:There is a question on FAOL concerning when was the first published information on the proportions of Catskill flies.
Question for the day..

If you know when, where and who published it.
Before I even attempt to research this, what's the winner's prize... :lol: :lol: :lol: and will it help me catch more trout? :roll: :P

That's my question of the day... :|

Ed

narcodog
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Re: Catskill hackle Gauges

Post by narcodog »

Any and all information you glean for your research will undoubtedly enhance you trout catching ability...

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Eperous
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Re: Catskill hackle Gauges

Post by Eperous »

narcodog wrote:Any and all information you glean for your research will undoubtedly enhance you trout catching ability...
Okay Bob, I'll bite and take a "WAG" at this--- a "wild ass guess" that is... Here's something from left field, how about Dr. George Parker Holden and his book Streamcraft... or maybe Samuel Camp... I know we're not playing horse-shoes here, but am I close? :?

Ed

narcodog
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Re: Catskill hackle Gauges

Post by narcodog »

Geez Ed, I don't have any idea. that's why I'm askin. I don't have the StreamCraft book..

Allan
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Re: Catskill hackle Gauges

Post by Allan »

Ed,

Since I was the one who raised the question of the other board, allow me to respond to your WAG(lol). I did not ask the question with any answer in mind. I am really searching for an answer. I looked in Streamcraft, books by Sturgis, Darbee, Dette, Leiser, Blades, and some others but I'm not sure where the information was first published and if what was published is correct. Example - Leiser states the proportions based on the Dettes but the Dettes actual flies are different than Leiser reports. The flies of Christian, Steenrod and Cross all have longer tails, higher wings and longer hackle than Leiser describes but I can't find any 'reference' to their use of proportions.
So, this is not a trick question. It's a real inquiry and I don't have the answer.

Allan

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Eperous
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Re: Catskill hackle Gauges

Post by Eperous »

Allan wrote: The flies of Christian, Steenrod and Cross all have longer tails, higher wings and longer hackle than Leiser describes but I can't find any 'reference' to their use of proportions.
So, this is not a trick question. It's a real inquiry and I don't have the answer.
Ah Allan, that puts a different spin on the quesstion, IMO... the late Ralph Hoffman, who only passed away 5 +/- years ago tied most of his "Catskill" wet flies with rather long wings and tails, by current proportions... so was this a style "thing", was it caused by the availability of materials, or what... I tend to this it was more of a "style" of the times approach--- perhaps a carry-over from early English flies, and not sure when shorter tails and hackle came into play... that said, my point is some "old timers" still tied the way folks did a century ago; not being afraid of right or wrong, long or short...

Interesting question and discussion, but off to do some fishing...

Ed

Fatman
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Re: Catskill hackle Gauges

Post by Fatman »

If anyone wants to read the StreamCraft book you can get it on Google Books - pretty good read but didn't see anything on proportions.

ted patlen
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Re: Catskill hackle Gauges

Post by ted patlen »

this is interesting to me because it parallels the same question i had about the name "silver doctor blue".
the first time that i can find sd blue in print is in Leonnards book. alomost 100 years after the sd came around. my guess is that the proportion guide you're asking about probably came around a while after gordon, christian etc..i think they were more worried about better grade hackle not comformity across the board.

the repetative sizing of hackles had to come from a commercial tyer...so my guess is cross. maybe he had one but hid it from others...one of his secrets?

good question.

where the hell is valla when you need him. hey mike, call van put!

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