Light wire hooks

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catskilljohn
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Light wire hooks

Post by catskilljohn »

Over the weekend I had a fish straighten out a light wire hook, not completely straight but opened up to where its holding capabilities were drastically reduced. It resembled a capital "L" and it was a miracle I landed it.

So, my question to you guys is, how do you feel about lighter than standard wire hooks? I switched to them because I felt that my striking style [more of a lift than a strike] was not enough to sink a heavier wire hook as easily as a thinner wire one. I didn't ever consider I would have a problem bending hooks on strong fish because, well...I dont catch strong ones all the time :lol: I do feel that my hookup ratio got alot better, and I dont seem to have nearly as many long distance releases as before since I switched.

Dry flies same thing. I almost always tye with 94833's rather than the 840's. Since I dress hackle on the sparse side and like the lighter hook for floatability, I prefer not using standard wire hooks for floating flies.

Anyone have a preference for or against? CJ
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viking
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Location: Sweden

Re: Light wire hooks

Post by viking »

I tie my dry flies standard wire hooks. I don´t want to loose a big fish because of the hook. I´m a firm beliver that a heavier hook will not affect the floatability, it´s not THAT heavier. I use some kind of TMC dry fly liquid( don´t remember the name right now) on my flies and you can make a gold beaded fly float with that stuff. But some flies looks nicer with a light wire hook. I always use natural dubbing on my dry and wet flies. I know some people that say that natural fur soak up water easier but on the other hand natural fur soak up floatant very well also.
Question: - If the hook wight is an issue, what about using wire ribbing?

//Janne

Allan
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Re: Light wire hooks

Post by Allan »

Hi John,

I don't get into big fish all that frequently and haven't had that problem happen to me, yet ;) . However, I have tested, in my own little way, a few of the 'fine wire' hooks. In terms of fishing, I Like the Mustad 94833 in 10 and 12 but don't care for it in anything smaller. In these larger sizes the fly weighs less and should float better then a Mustad 94840. And I concede that a dry fly looks better tyed on this hook. But I do think in the smaller sizes (<12) it bends too easily and the weight of the standard hook is inconsequential to floatation. A few years ago I did a 'pull' test(not scientific mind you) comparing the 94840 and the standard dry fly hook from Daiichi 1100(?) and Tiemco 100(?). I think I used size 12 hooks. I imbedded the points of these hooks in a piece of wood, attached a piece of leader to each and gently began adding pressure. Under the same pull pressure, the Daiichi straightened quickest, followed by the Tiemco. So does that result mean anything insofar as fishing? I guess the answer is Maybe. Under the right conditions (right for the fish, wrong for us) a good size fish can probably bend the typical hook. For example: say you're fishing a size 14 Adams and lose a 20" trout because the hook straightened out. A short time later you hook and land a 20" trout on a size 22 trico. How come the finer wire of the size 22 held fast? In all probability where the hook was imbedded, the angle of pull, playing the fish, and maybe just some luck entered into it.

Hey, regardless, you've got to hook the fish to bend the hook. And, if I'm fortunate enough to hook a strong fish, I'll take that situation and my chances with whatever hook I've used anyday :lol:

Allan

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ewpeper
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Re: Light wire hooks

Post by ewpeper »

I agree with you CJ. I prefer light wire hooks for their overall performance, and I'll take my chances on straightening. Last year I retired a #18 rusty spinner tied on a Dohiku 301 (barbless) after landing 12 fish on it up to 20"+. I had to bend the hook back into shape 3 times in the course of those 12 fish because the gape had opened slightly. I'm convinced the lighter wire, sharper points, smaller diameter wire and better floating performance all contribute to more hookups.

Eric
A mountain is a fact -- a trout is a moment of beauty known only to men who seek them.
Al McClane in his Introduction to The Practical Fly Fisherman . . . often erroneously attributed to Arnold Gingrich

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Eperous
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Re: Light wire hooks

Post by Eperous »

Interesting topic and responses... call me old fashion, I just like Mustad 94840 hooks, except once I get down to size 20 and below.... that said, over the years I have had a few fish straighten out hooks... twice on the lower Neversink I had dry flies go that route... and twice on the Rondout Reservoir I had streamers suffer the same fate... and each time I wondered what kind, how big was that fish--- guess I'll never know... :cry: :cry: :cry:

Ed

ted patlen
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Re: Light wire hooks

Post by ted patlen »

i've had small hooks and large hooks straighten over the years. thinking in those terms what caused the straightening of the hook...the wire, fish, rod or angle of the rod?

a high rod tip puts less strain onto the fish thus less pressure on the hook, a major reason why soft fly rods are great for very light tippets and small flies...BUT if you drop the rod and have a straight pull to the hook you can easily pop the tippet, leader, or straighten the hook. as i stated before i have straightened 3/0 salt water hooks on fish, probably because i play a fish harder than most trying to get them in quickly.


we were taught.."keep the rod high!!!!!!!" but years later people said..."you lost that fish because you raised the rod too high" then a few years later " keep the rod tip in the water to set the hook" i have heard these through the years and it almost seems that these arguments follow the progression of stiffer and stiffer rods (fresh or salt ).....how you play the fish, meaning how you use the rod, is directly related to the fly/tippet/leader combination.

this make sense?

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ewpeper
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Re: Light wire hooks

Post by ewpeper »

ted patlen wrote:i've had small hooks and large hooks straighten over the years. thinking in those terms what caused the straightening of the hook...the wire, fish, rod or angle of the rod?

a high rod tip puts less strain onto the fish thus less pressure on the hook, a major reason why soft fly rods are great for very light tippets and small flies...BUT if you drop the rod and have a straight pull to the hook you can easily pop the tippet, leader, or straighten the hook. as i stated before i have straightened 3/0 salt water hooks on fish, probably because i play a fish harder than most trying to get them in quickly.


we were taught.."keep the rod high!!!!!!!" but years later people said..."you lost that fish because you raised the rod too high" then a few years later " keep the rod tip in the water to set the hook" i have heard these through the years and it almost seems that these arguments follow the progression of stiffer and stiffer rods (fresh or salt ).....how you play the fish, meaning how you use the rod, is directly related to the fly/tippet/leader combination.

this make sense?


Yup, makes a lotta sense to me, especially fishing bamboo. About the only time my rod tip gets low while playing a fish is if I desperately have to turn the fish to keep it out of a downstream sluice. I've also found that in many cases light pressure on the fish results in more fish landed in less time especially when using small hooks and light leaders. Heavy pressure seems to provoke longer runs and more jumps, while light pressure seems to provoke confusion.

Eric
A mountain is a fact -- a trout is a moment of beauty known only to men who seek them.
Al McClane in his Introduction to The Practical Fly Fisherman . . . often erroneously attributed to Arnold Gingrich

Allan
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Re: Light wire hooks

Post by Allan »

Ted,

You ask if all that makes any sense? Well, I guess it does in that there are so many conflicting opinions about almost everything in fly fishing and tying. Personally I try to keep the rod tip pointed up. I wonder what people mean when they say "high". How high is high? Outstretch your arms over your head? That's gotta be uncomfortable. Maybe the correct word would be 'verticle'. Then, there are time when that word is incorrect because you want to turn a fish. Then you may hold the rod parallel to the water BUT at a right angle to the fish. Does this make sense ;) ?

Allan

ted patlen
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Re: Light wire hooks

Post by ted patlen »

let me try this when i refer to a high tip i am not in an uncomfortable posture. the rod is not over my head every second of every cast , playing a fish, setting the hook...whatever ...it has more to do with the angle of the rod and the line coming out of it.

(from a page stolen from ed jaworowski)....the angle of the rod to the line coming out of the tip top...the closest this angle is to 90 degrees the less pressure on the fish whereas the straightest the angle (0 degrees) the more pressure on the fish.

obviously there are a million possible variations but the straighter the angle the greater the pressure thus pulled hooks, straightened hooks , weak knots blowing up etc.

side pressure, high tip , netting a fish.... all where and when...

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drlogik
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Re: Light wire hooks

Post by drlogik »

I haven't put a lot of thought into thin vs standard over the years but I do tend to tie flies on standard wire hooks. I think it also depends on the metallurgy of the steel. If I'm tying a fly and it seems to bend/flex too easily in the vise, I toss it and use another. If they all seem to do that, the box gets pushed aside and I use a different hook.
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