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mouse pattern question

Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:52 pm
by benkann
I'll be tying deer hair mice soon. I use them for bass and would like to use them for night fishing for trout.
My question is this: what's the best choice of hook? Ive been using bass stinger hooks and wonder if there isn't something better.
Also any other thoughts -- size, ears/no ears, whatever -- would be appreciated

Re: mouse pattern question

Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:24 pm
by Eperous
Benkann,

Perhaps this might be a tough question for members who post on this bulletin board on a regular basis... I don't think too many of the guys fish/tie Catskill flies that are "mice patterns"... so noted, a few years ago Fly Fisherman magazine had a neat article on mice patterns for brook trout up in Canada... I tied a few, but don't have them anymore and not sure if I still have that article I cut out--- but, I'll look...

I would suggest that you want a pattern based upon "rough" shape with a tail... something that pushes water in the dark.... I also suggest that you consider a black Jack Gartside Gurgler... it's not a mouse pattern, but it pushes water and I bet would work...

I'll check for the FF article... good luck in your search...

Ed

Re: mouse pattern question

Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:53 pm
by BrownBear
I'm really fond of TMC 8089's for all my deer hair dries. Oversize gape and very light wire, yet terrific temper for holding the biggest fish. Dunno how they came up with the size designations, because the #2 has a gape akin to a 3/0. That's what I use for the biggest fish and flies, thrown with 8WTs and heavier rods. For tossing with rods in the 5-6-7WT range and flies sized accordingly, I've been happy with the #6 8089's. I've never actually seen them as small as #12, so I don't know what to tell you about those.

Re: mouse pattern question

Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:49 pm
by Joe Fox
I love mousing for trout at night.
There are two things you need to look for. These hooks need a large gap and strong wire (this does not mean it has to be heavy). My top picks are
The Gaelic Chris Helm Bass Hook
https://www.detteflies.com/chris_helm
Partridge CS45 Absolute Predator Hook (Barbless hooks that I'm using more and more as I leave barbs totally behind)
https://www.detteflies.com/cs45
Partridge CS86 Universal Predator Hooks
https://www.detteflies.com/cs86

I use patterns up to 4 inches long, but generally hang in the 2 inch range. If you are using hair, packs them as tight as you can. This will just keep them floating higher, longer and help move more water. For tails, I prefer zonkers because the sit deeper in the water and tend not to skip on the surface, more like a swimming mammal. There are also tricks to keep the tail from fouling by attaching a heavy mono loop at the base of the tail. I do not find eyes and ears to be necessary.

I generally like to fish them with a heavy rods. I have a dedicated night rod, a Vision Big Daddy 9' 8wt that easily turns over these big flies, most most any 8wt will do fine. I also keep a few small patterns for when I have a 4 or 5 weight and I'm only fishing the first couple of hours into the night. These are just smaller or loss wind resistant. Heavy tippet is also key. I do not use leaders, just 3 feet of 10 - 15 lb fluorocarbon. This allows the flies to turn over easily. Since you can't see much when it is real dark, making things easy and predictable is important.

Re: mouse pattern question

Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:12 pm
by Barleywine
Hardly anyone would still keep a really large trout, but this thread makes me wonder what kind of critters you might find in the stomach of a big night-feeding brown.

Re: mouse pattern question

Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:43 am
by benkann
Thank you all for these replies. This looks like some really useful info.
Ben

Re: mouse pattern question

Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:18 pm
by SgtMajUSMC
Ben,

I do a fair amount of night fishing for trout. I've caught them on mice, but I feel there are better patterns to try when fishing the surface. As Ed stated, the Gartside Gurgler is my first choice. Tied on a TMC 200R in black, with a short marabou tail, it sits low in the water and wakes well.

When tying deer hair mice, especially for trout, make sure you trim the belly of the fly close to the hook shank so that you don't close the hook gap. Closing the hook gap will cause you to miss many strikes. Try a barbless hook, or at least pinch the barb down. You'll lose some fish - browns really tend to thrash and jump at night. Sometimes they will take your fly deep in the mouth, and a barbless hook helps with the release.

I tie my tails with a piece of chamois leather or a zonker strip, as Joe said. Whiskers, eyes, and ears aren't needed. You may want to tie a few mice with dyed black deer hair, though.

Good luck preparing for the upcoming season...if you don't mind fumbling around and fishing in the dark, it's a lot of fun.

Best,

Tim

Re: mouse pattern question

Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:24 am
by BrownBear
SgtMajUSMC wrote: When tying deer hair mice, especially for trout, make sure you trim the belly of the fly close to the hook shank so that you don't close the hook gap. Closing the hook gap will cause you to miss many strikes.
Clearly the most important thing in tying deer hair. Nothing worse than missing the strike when a big hooked nose pokes up out of the water. That's why I like the 8089's so much. Combined with a good clip job on the bottom, the extra gape cuts way down both on misses and lost fish.

Re: mouse pattern question

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:46 pm
by squish67
And why not? I would be proud to fish it! :D

Welcome!

Re: mouse pattern question

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:25 pm
by Mr. Don
I know you said deer hair BUT this is the only mouse pattern I have ever caught fish (bass) on. Looks so much like a struggling little Mickey that it will break your heart.

http://hatchesmagazine.com/blogs/Hatche ... -treehorn/