Cahill Bivisible Spider - Arnold Gingrich

From Halford's early dries to the Catskill dry and everything else that floats on the surface.
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Eperous
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Cahill Bivisible Spider - Arnold Gingrich

Post by Eperous »

First things first, welcome back... missed this website/bulletin board... almost lost without it!

The late Arnold Gingrich, founding editor of Esquire magazine, and avid Catskill angler authored several good books including one called, The Well-Tempered Angler. This book includes lots of neat stuff about the Catskills, especially the Esopus Creek. Chapter 12 of this book is entitled "Trout by the Score" where Gingrich basically writes about different fly patterns that have produced for him on the Esopus, Beaverkill, Willowemoc, etc. One particular fly caught my attention, a #16 Cahill Bivisible Spider, as he mentions this pattern in other books of his also.

I posted a question about this fly on other bulletin boards, but have never been able to find its recipe. All I do know is that at one time William Mills and Son listed it in their catalog as a pattern that they sold.

Does anyone know what the pattern/recipe for a Cahill Bivisible Spider calls for?

Thanks in advance for any information.

Ed

catskilljohn
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Re: Cahill Bivisible Spider - Arnold Gingrich

Post by catskilljohn »

Right on man, missed this place!

I have read about the Cahill Bivisible Spider also, one of our guys will know!

Glad we are back up :D CJ
"Gentlemen,remove your hats,this is it"
"This is where the trout was invented?"
"Oh he existed in a crude,primitive form in Waltons England"
"But this is where they painted spots on him and taught him to swim"

dennis
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Re: Cahill Bivisible Spider - Arnold Gingrich

Post by dennis »

Ed, your question about the Cahill Bivisible Spider interested me so I did some research. In "Flies" Leonard on page 216 he list's a couple patterns close but no cigar.

1.Cahill Bivisible
Hackle:Brown Palmer/White Front
Body:Gray dubbing/gold tip
Tail:Woodduck

2.Cahill Palmer Light
Wing:woodduck
Hackle:Lt.Ginger Palmer
Body:Cream fur dubbing
Tail:Woodduck

Leonard lists several patterns for spiders but no Cahill Dry Spiders. On page 175 in :Land of Little Rivers" Francis theres a Brown Bivisible tyed by Hewitt but no CBS.
Other research from "Catskill Flytyer" Darbee mentions he tied NS's for Hewitt with not much more execpt mentioning the use of the Bivisible color scheme for some of the NS's. Ed Shenk's"Fly Rod Trouting" has a whole chapter on Skaters called "The Skater Waltz page 97.
I guess Hewitt's tying technique was found by Marinaro explaining the history in his 1976 issue of Outdoor Life artical "Secret of the Neversink Scater".

My theroy is the CBS is linked between as you mention William Mills and Son catalog and somewhere in the many great books of Edward R. Hewitt that I don't have, but soon will.


"The Fly and the Fish" Atherton was shipped today from amazon so from what I here there's a chapter on Skaters and Spiders.Maybe it will shed some light on the Cahill Bivisible Spider. Dennis

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Eperous
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Re: Cahill Bivisible Spider - Arnold Gingrich

Post by Eperous »

dennis wrote:Ed, your question about the Cahill Bivisible Spider interested me so I did some research. ...

My theroy is the CBS is linked between as you mention William Mills and Son catalog and somewhere in the many great books of Edward R. Hewitt that I don't have, but soon will.

"The Fly and the Fish" Atherton was shipped today from amazon so from what I here there's a chapter on Skaters and Spiders.Maybe it will shed some light on the Cahill Bivisible Spider. Dennis
Dennis... first thanks for your interest and reserach... Maybe the first pattern you listed is the closest link yet? :?:

I have several Ed Hewitt books, a few that I read 2-3 times and do not recall mention of this pattern in any... I do fondly remember the Badger Spider as it was one of my "first favorite" dry flies of all times, till my eyes got old and tired --- sort of like the rest of me... :lol:

Atherton might be a good source, which by the way - IMHO - his book The Fly and the Fish is a real sleeper and one of THE BEST books on trout fishing I every read... changed my hold approach from exact hatch matching to more impressiontistic (sp?) - presentation... and I never looked back, nor regretted it... I hope you enjoy this book as much as I did almost 40 years ago.... ;)

A year, or two, ago when I first posted the question on another board, I did a Google search at the time and found the William Mills and Son catalog connection, but that was it... your post prompted me to Google this again, this time I found this quote - reportedly by Arnold Gingrich - and I believe it is from one of his books I mentioned up top,

" I finally got so infuriated at a prolonged spell of fishlessness that
I decided to stick with the fly I had on, which happened to be a light
Cahill size 14. By season's end I found I had taken just about as many
fish as I had the year before, when I had carried consistently close to
five hundred flies in my overstuffed fishing clothes and made a
concientious effort to use them all. Still another year, after a
weekend of great success with the Cahill bivisible spider size 16 I
stuck to it the rest of the season and wound up doing just about the
same as the other two seasons.

Arnold Gingrich"


Gingrich - who fished these Catskills, especially my Esopus, really got me interested in this pattern, but we may never know that much about it... :cry:

Off to take care of a Trout in the Classroom fish tank at a local elementary school... :)

Ed

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Eperous
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Re: Resurrecting an old question

Post by Eperous »

On Clarks Classic Rod Forum the topic of William Mills & Son catalog came up, so I took the opportunity to pose my on-going question about the Cahill Bivisible Spider fished by the late Arnold Gingrich. I got a response, which supports the fly's existence --- but that's about it so far.

Here's the response,

I have no information other than what you posted. The fly is listed in the 1940 Mills' catalog. $2.40/dozen.

I guess some questions we may just have to take to the grave with us, and that's the best we ever can do. Haven't given up yet, but leads are "Slim & None" with Slim looking like he's leaving town. :(

Ed

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ewpeper
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Re: Cahill Bivisible Spider - Arnold Gingrich

Post by ewpeper »

There's just gotta be more on this pattern somewhere. If it appeared in the 1940 Mills catalog and Gingrich mentions it in the quote (above) from what I believe was The Well Tempered Angler, I believe in the context of the years he fished the upper Beaverkill with McClane, that would imply some fifteen years of usage of that fly.

Eric
A mountain is a fact -- a trout is a moment of beauty known only to men who seek them.
Al McClane in his Introduction to The Practical Fly Fisherman . . . often erroneously attributed to Arnold Gingrich

catskilljohn
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Re: Cahill Bivisible Spider - Arnold Gingrich

Post by catskilljohn »

I will swing by Kuttners and VanPuts this weekend and see if they have something on it. We have to get to the bottom of this one! CJ
"Gentlemen,remove your hats,this is it"
"This is where the trout was invented?"
"Oh he existed in a crude,primitive form in Waltons England"
"But this is where they painted spots on him and taught him to swim"

dennis
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Re: Cahill Bivisible Spider - Arnold Gingrich

Post by dennis »

catskilljohn wrote:I will swing by Kuttners and VanPuts this weekend and see if they have something on it. We have to get to the bottom of this one! CJ
Well Inspector, any results ? :lol:

catskilljohn
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Re: Cahill Bivisible Spider - Arnold Gingrich

Post by catskilljohn »

Kuttner didn't have any recollection and Ed was not home when I was there. I still would like to ask Dave Catizone about it, and Van Put when I see him. Like Eric mentioned, someone has to remember this fly, I just hope we aren't too late in asking.

Just for the fun of it...if you had to tye one just knowing the name of the dressing [as it seems, thats all we will ever know!] what would it look like? CJ
"Gentlemen,remove your hats,this is it"
"This is where the trout was invented?"
"Oh he existed in a crude,primitive form in Waltons England"
"But this is where they painted spots on him and taught him to swim"

narcodog
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Re: Cahill Bivisible Spider - Arnold Gingrich

Post by narcodog »

Cahill BiVisible
hackle - Brn palmer with white front

body -Gray dubbing

tail- br (tan bar) wood duck

tip - Gold

Page 303 Donald DuBois "The Flyfisherman's Handbook of TROUT FLIES"
Last edited by narcodog on Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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