Ephemerella dorothea [Sulphur]

catskilljohn
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Re: Ephemerella dorothea [Sulphur]

Post by catskilljohn »

Yea, its a sulphur, all these little pale yellow bugs are :lol:

Like Bob mentioned, the dorothea is smaller that the invaria. CJ
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redietz
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Re: Ephemerella dorothea [Sulphur]

Post by redietz »

northcountryman wrote:Guys;

Is the E. invaria a Sulphur also or only the E. Dorothea? I know the E. subvaria is the Hendrickson but I'm still tryin to figure out the diff. between the invaria/dorothea species within Epehemerella.
E. invaria is the "big sulfur", or just "sulfur", e. dorothea is the "little sulfur". The bigger one hatches first, and in the beginning of the hatch is about a size 16, and much more orange than yellow. As the hatch progresses, (as in weeks, not during the same day) they get smaller, down to about a size 16, and lighter. The tail end of the hatch overlaps the beginning of hatch of the smaller sulfur, which starts out more yellow than the bigger one did, and is about a size 16 at the beginning of the hatch. The two species are really hard to tell apart during this period, and for decades, scientist thought they were a third species e.rotunda. DNA showed that this "third species" was really just a mix of smaller invarias and larger dorotheas, although there are still those that dispute the DNA evidence. As the hatch of the smaller sulfur continues, they too get smaller and lighter (and the larger stops hatching) so that you end up with insects which are size 18 or even smaller.

To further confuse things, "lighter" is a relative term. The duns are lighter than the spinners in each species, and are lighter immediately after emerging than they are after some time has passed. The male spinners can darker than females; I fished a spinner fall two weeks ago and caught fish on a red quill; the male Hendrickson spinner is not a whole lot more red than the sulfur spinners I was seeing that evening. In fact, they can be hard to tell apart.

I carry at least thirty shades and patterns of sulfur dries, and still sometimes come up wanting in matching the hatch on a given day, and almost the same number of wets. It's even worse on hot days when the hatch and spinner fall both happen at dusk, you're not quite sure what the fish are feeding on until it's almost too late.

I love the sulfur hatch(es) but they can be very confusing at times.

catskilljohn
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Re: Ephemerella dorothea [Sulphur]

Post by catskilljohn »

I am finding out that color varies over time with these bugs. The few I have caught and "tamed" for photo's almost change colors before your eyes. That invaria almost looked olive when it first popped out, but after about 10 minutes started to "sulphur up". In the fading sunlight they glowed yellow while in flight, but when captured they were much paler.

Carrying a large assortment as Bob does makes sense, as I imagine from stream to stream they vary in color too. CJ
"Gentlemen,remove your hats,this is it"
"This is where the trout was invented?"
"Oh he existed in a crude,primitive form in Waltons England"
"But this is where they painted spots on him and taught him to swim"

Bamboo&Brookies
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Re: Ephemerella dorothea [Sulphur]

Post by Bamboo&Brookies »

rdietz wrote:
'I carry at least thirty shades and patterns of sulfur dries...'

Man, I don't have a prayer in hell.

;)

-Rob

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Eperous
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Re: Ephemerella dorothea [Sulphur]

Post by Eperous »

Bamboo&Brookies wrote:rdietz wrote:
'I carry at least thirty shades and patterns of sulfur dries...'

Man, I don't have a prayer in hell.

;)

-Rob
Me too Rob... I carry 30 dry flies in all...

Ed

redietz
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Re: Ephemerella dorothea [Sulphur]

Post by redietz »

Bamboo&Brookies wrote:rdietz wrote:
'I carry at least thirty shades and patterns of sulfur dries...'

Man, I don't have a prayer in hell.
For me, it's the money hatch on the stream I fish every week, and lasts from early May (April this year) into July. It's the only insect that it's worth it for me to have so well covered, more so since the same flies can do double duty if I go out west and fish over PMD's.

fishcane
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Re: Ephemerella dorothea [Sulphur]

Post by fishcane »

redietz wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:48 pm
Bamboo&Brookies wrote:rdietz wrote:
'I carry at least thirty shades and patterns of sulfur dries...'

Man, I don't have a prayer in hell.
For me, it's the money hatch on the stream I fish every week, and lasts from early May (April this year) into July. It's the only insect that it's worth it for me to have so well covered, more so since the same flies can do double duty if I go out west and fish over PMD's.
Until you hit the frying pan, then you need a few pink ones too!
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Caneghost
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Re: Ephemerella dorothea [Sulphur]

Post by Caneghost »

Surely you don't mean "shades: alone? Now patterns, well yes thirty sounds about right once sizes are covered, CDC duns, comparaduns, parachutes, cripples. I find color very important but I limit sulfurs to a couple yellows, a blend of yellow and sulfur orange, and yellow with a faint olivish tint (have not used that one since Gunpowder Falls 25 years ago).

Of course then there are new and experimental patterns...
Jave Quill CDC Sulfur.JPG
Jave Quill CDC Sulfur.JPG (64.27 KiB) Viewed 622 times

redietz
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Re: Ephemerella dorothea [Sulphur]

Post by redietz »

Caneghost wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:57 am
Surely you don't mean "shades: alone? Now patterns, well yes thirty sounds about right once sizes are covered, CDC duns, comparaduns, parachutes, cripples. I find color very important but I limit sulfurs to a couple yellows, a blend of yellow and sulfur orange, and yellow with a faint olivish tint (have not used that one since Gunpowder Falls 25 years ago).
No, I didn't mean shades alone, but if you account every shade in different style and sizes, I have at least 30 distinct imitations.

I fish Gunpowder Falls several times a week. Some years there's an overlap between the tail end of the Hendrickson hatch and the beginning of the invaria hatch. That yellow with an olive-ish tint sounds like it would come in handy at that time.

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Caneghost
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Re: Ephemerella dorothea [Sulphur]

Post by Caneghost »

At least as well a memory serves the slight olivish tinted yellow were size 16 flies and appeared right along with the pale yellow/pale sulfur orange size 16's. One evening they were one color at least predominantly and another evening they would be the other color. The trout were often color specific to the same pattern ties with the different color dubbing. The olivish yellow may have been Fly Rite but I cannot be sure all these years later.

Gunpowder browns, at least back during the little river's peak years could be maddeningly selective. One early summer they got on freshwater aphids and would not touch anything else. Puffy abdomens with a light bluish tinged white. I recalled Joe Bruce at The Fisherman's Edge saying "you can tie a fly with anything, even dryer lint" when I took his intro fly tying class. The light went on - dryer lint from faded blue jeans and white tee shirts replicated that color. I tied them and those trout were suckers for them the next evening!

I hear that larger trout are coming back there. I know for years they seemed absent from the photos and reports I would see. Funny how, as the hatches improved the average size of the trout declined.

Have a great season!

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