Tying hackle

Anything fly tying...
bearbutt
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Re: Tying hackle

Post by bearbutt » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:13 am

Eperous wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:55 pm
BB, to change the topic a bit... can you pinpoint for thick-headed me where Hewitt wrote about a tail on his Bivisibles? :?: I've always tied these without a tail, based upon Hewitt's description of the pattern on page 54 of Telling on Trout... my copy is a 1926 Scribner edition...

Ed,

As far as I know, Hewitt (like Rhead before him) did not provide detailed dressing notes in his writings--he wrote 'around' his subject, as an enticement to get people to purchase the flies from him, and only after having had Darbee do all the tying.

But we do have his flies to study. The two Hewitt Bivisibles I have, both which have provenance from Chris Holmes, who was caretaker on Hewitt's Neversink estate. Both show the tips tied in first, and the fly tied from bend to eye:

Image

Another related example of palmered flies with the tip tied in as a tail is Labranche's Pink Lady, tied as a dry salmon fly:

Image

I don't know who tied this one; I have a few others Charlie sent me for the Fly Tying Museum project that I need to photograph--but I think we have some good examples here of early palmered tying that involves tying tip-first, and using the tip to make the eye.

bb
Last edited by bearbutt on Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Eperous
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Location: Catskills

Re: Tying hackle

Post by Eperous » Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:49 pm

bearbutt wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:13 am
... As far as I know, Hewitt (like Rhead before him) did not provide detailed dressing notes in his writings--he wrote 'around' his subject, as an enticement to get people to purchase the flies from him, and only after having had Darbee do all the tying.

But we do have his flies to study. The two Hewitt Bivisibles I have, both which have provenance from Chris Holmes, who was caretaker on Hewitt's Neversink estate. Both show the tips tied in first, and the fly tied from bend to eye ...
Thanks BB,

I've been tying Hewitt's Bivisible for half a century+ now, and always based upon sketchy Edward R. Hewitt's writings about "his stuff"... the hackle tip tail part was never clear to me, hence I never did it that way since I started tying this pattern before the Internet, DVD's, all the electronic info we have available these days, and other fine written references like Mike Valla's books...

I recall Ed Van Put, in his wonderful book Trout Fishing in the Catskills, writing that back in the 1930’s “the Bivisible was possibly the most popular dry fly in the country.”

And fondly remember reading on page 315 of Old Man Hewitt's 1943 book, Those were the Days: “I have also made many new types of flies for both trout and salmon fishing. One trout fly, which I introduced, although it was not entirely a new design, is almost the most popular fly in use today. It is the ‘Bivisible,’ so named because I could see it and the trout could see it.”

PS... I love fishing Hewitt's Brown Bivisible on the upper Neversink for small wild brook trout, and the occasional brown, in Hewitt's memory. ;)

Here's almost a foot-long wild East Branch Neversink brook trout that sucked in a #14 Brown Bivisible before being released for another day...

11+ in Brown Bivisible EBN brook trout.JPG
11+ in Brown Bivisible EBN brook trout.JPG (133.88 KiB) Viewed 240 times

Sorry to side-track this thread on tying dry-fly hackle in by the tip... :oops: :cry:

Thanks again.

Ed

ted patlen
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Re: Tying hackle

Post by ted patlen » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:35 pm

I won't be home till Friday so I can't check but I seem to remember that Bergman tied it in by the tip, could be wrong......someone check trout, the chapter with photos on how to tie...

squish67
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Re: Tying hackle

Post by squish67 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:55 am

Couldn't find any notes on Bivisibles in my edition of Trout, but Plate 14 clearly shows hackle tip tails, and the description calls for hackle tip tails.

redietz
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Re: Tying hackle

Post by redietz » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:34 pm

ted patlen wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:35 pm
I won't be home till Friday so I can't check but I seem to remember that Bergman tied it in by the tip, could be wrong......someone check trout, the chapter with photos on how to tie...
No, the photos clearly show the hackle tied in by the stem.

(Not every edition of Trout has those photos.)
Bob

bearbutt
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Re: Tying hackle

Post by bearbutt » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:49 pm

squish67 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:55 am
Couldn't find any notes on Bivisibles in my edition of Trout, but Plate 14 clearly shows hackle tip tails, and the description calls for hackle tip tails.
Yes.

Image

This image is in both the 1st (1938) and second (1947) editions of Trout. You can't tie in the tail tips without tying the tips in first.

bb

squish67
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Re: Tying hackle

Post by squish67 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:35 am

Interestingly, the Brown and Gray Bivisible, the fourth one from the left, top row, calls for mixed brown and gray hackle wisps! :shock:

ted patlen
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Re: Tying hackle

Post by ted patlen » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:42 pm

the hackle must be tied in by the tips for body hackles. That is the only way together a taper is formed on paltered bodies.

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Eperous
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Re: Tying hackle

Post by Eperous » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:46 pm

squish67 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:55 am
Couldn't find any notes on Bivisibles in my edition of Trout, but Plate 14 clearly shows hackle tip tails, and the description calls for hackle tip tails.
Norm... interesting you mention this, and the several posts below yours... after I read this, I dug out my copy of Trout and noticed I had pages 184 and 185 highlighted where Bergman sang the praises of the Bivisible... and then looked at Plate 14 and the recipe for the pattern in the back of his book, where it calls out using hackle tips as tails... I can only conclude I initially, and have since, tied the dry fly based upon my "understanding" of what I read in Hewitt's Telling on the Trout, ignoring Bergman totally since I probably read each at different times... :cry: :oops:

Ed

redietz
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Re: Tying hackle

Post by redietz » Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:25 pm

ted patlen wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:42 pm
the hackle must be tied in by the tips for body hackles. That is the only way together a taper is formed on paltered bodies.
Not really. You can always wrap front to back, and anchor with a rib (even if it's only the tag end of your tying thread.)
Bob

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